Rae Nicoletti, the Founder of Hozen, a sustainable accessories company that makes eco-friendly vegan leather walks us thru how she makes her company sustainable from ethical factories, product materials to carbon offsets, her wholesale marketing strategy and why she’s so excited about the next generation of bio-materials available to fashion brands.

Show Contents:

• Rae's background - studying leather work under Hermes master aritsan Bea Amblard

• The origins of Hozen and developing a vegan accessories brand as a leather alternative

• Product sourcing for sustainable brands including Piñatex®, a eco-friendly leather made from pineapple fibers.

• How Hozen practices as a sustainability brand throughout its company

• How to do carbon-neutral shipping and carbon offsets for websites. Which companies to use.

• Plant-based vs Vegan: discussing the terms.

• Review of how Instagram can help sustainable brands such as Hozen develop business relationships.

• How emerging brands can do wholesale strategy

• What is Hozen working on in 2020 and what type of new bio or vegan materials she’s using in the future.

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Rae Nicoletti, the Founder of Hozen, a sustainable accessories company that makes eco-friendly vegan leather walks us thru how she makes her company sustainable from ethical factories, product materials to carbon offsets, her wholesale marketing strategy and why she’s so excited about the next generation of bio-materials available to fashion brands.

Show Contents:

Stephen Carl: Welcome to Episode five of the Needle Movement podcast. Today I talked to Ray Nicoletti, the founder of Hozen, a sustainable accessories company. I was really excited to get Rae on. The show is one of the first interviews, because Hozen is definitely ahead of the curve on sustainability and her company is just like the rest of us were. Tackling the challenges of modern retail and trying to figure it out, step by step. Cover a lot of ground during our chat and a few points. The highlight. I was taking notes when Rae was talking about products were saying, I just want to clone her mindset. So good. Because with product-based businesses and fashion, the easel of materials you can work with is expanding and even things like leather, which many might see, is one possible material. Hey, now there's five different ways to make an alternative. Feels the same. Looks the same, and this is just beginning as more materials are coming. So, be creative with product sourcing. How are you manufacturing? Let's just say a company has a product that has some plastic and its manufacturing. Now it's easier to find alternatives such as recycled ocean plastic there are providers that do it. Adidas made a product about a year ago like this. But if you have recycled ocean plastic in your product. If you have that now, you have a product with the story that can sell in retail. I know that some businesses get a little frustrated with social media, especially with Instagram. I'm like here. People curse about the ‘Gram, and I understand it's like it doesn't create instant sales, and there’s a little frustration. Take a look at the Hozen account, the Hozen Collection. Follow that account. It’s a great example of how what you can do organically on instagram. Nice visual content, instagrammed stories and just consistency. Updating content on a consistent calendar. It's not surprising that she has seen some business opportunities that have resulted through her instagram presence. So we'll talk about that later on the show. And towards the end, we also cover wholesale. Hozen has an intriguing strategy there because they're not just on Shopify. That's not the only place they're selling their products, you know. They also have a very active wholesale strategy, not just on its online, and it's also in brick and mortar stores. And that's becoming a common template for retail having your own website combined with a wider wholesale strategy. So without further ado, let's let's hear it straight from the owner, from Rae for this interview and Dive in, I'm Stephen Carl talking straight from Brooklyn, New York

Welcome to the needle movement podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Carl, and today I am thrilled because we're going to talk to Rae Nicoletti, the founder of Hozen. Hozen is an accessories company, which is disrupting the fashion space with eco friendly alternatives, to leather bags and accessories. And the cool thing is, with no sacrifice to the appeal of the product. I mean, you gotta check out these Hozen bag styles. They turn heads. These bags are real lookers, and many businesses want to be more sustainable. But sometimes, like we all just don't know how to do it with our marketing, distribution and even how to do newer things such as carbon neutral shipping. So Ray is going to talk through these with us today. Can't wait to dive in

Rae, Welcome to the show.

Rae Nicoletti: Hi, Thank you for having me. It's always great to talk about Hozen and kind of explain how we got here.

Stephen Carl: Excellent. So how did you get started with hoes and making sustainable vegan leather move your background in leather making in fashion before?

Rae Nicoletti: Wow. Well, I started my career out of college on the creative team of Kate Spade in New York. I was there for a number of years, and then I moved to San Francisco, and I worked for Restoration Hardware as an in house prop stylist. So all of those giant catalogs that you see in the giant stores I helped concept and design and prop and style out until I had some really great corporate experience, just overarching all the elements of the business on the working with really established and inspiring people. But it kind of always felt like I needed more of my own creative outlet. So, on the weekends, I would take the workshop classes, ceramics, weaving and things. And then I found this leather school in San Francisco that was founded by a French woman who made bags for Hermes. And so I signed up for this program. It was a year of Saturdays, which is like a bigger commitment than I've ever made to anything. But I learned all hand leather work and pattern making, and it was specifically focused on handbag construction. So I just kind of started the program with no expectations. And by the end, I was, like, super stoked to start my own line.

Stephen: Excellent. Before the show, we were talking a little bit about product sourcing because you know it must get pretty creative because you're trying to find alternatives to a leather product and you're trying to get that look and feel, but also make offer the holistic, sustainable angle to it as well.

So how do you handle product sourcing?

Rae: I mean, of course, there are alternatives like canvas are him other organic and ICO friendly materials. But I think because I have this Hermes background, I really like the look of like a structure or classic bag that well last and just feels a little more elevated. So during that program, that was 2015. When I entered the leather program, I was vegetarian. By March, I went vegan and go in December. When I graduated, that was, you know, time to start thinking about my own line. I started researching eco-friendly leathers because at this point I was only eating vegan. I didn't really think about the fashion side of that lifestyle. And so that's really what I educated myself on the leather industry. And I think that, you know, they're trying to make some efforts to clean it up a bit. But still, I mean, it's just super toxic to the planet, to the workers, obviously not cruelty free. So there was just no way I could move forward using that material. And at that point I also realized there was a huge opportunity in the beginning fashion accessory space. So now, to answer your questions, then I started searching just these materials, and so I was fortunate enough to actually quickly find a vendor from Italy. I had gone to a fabric sourcing trade show in New York, and I found this one vendor from Italy that made a leather alternative. The rest of the show was completely leather, so that was like my first kind of like stroke of luck and, you know, moving forward. But then it dawned on me that I should also consider the other elements that go into bad making such as thread and zippers. I mean, did buy anything off the shelves. I think that that product is there's probably not much thought that goes into that product right. It's just mass produced and just, like, pumped out into the world. And so I wanted to really try to touch on all of the raw materials and really do my research to find, like, the most eco friendly that I could

Stephen: Cool. Yeah, you know, you said something interesting. Before that. I wanted to go back to. with regular leather, and I don't I definitely not as educated in it, But there is a common thought that leather is just a by-product of an animal that's already being killed. Is that right?

So what is it? Sounds like there's something more, though, outside of that assumption.

Rae: I mean, in my mind, there's obviously it's a huge industry. It's a giant industry, and if you think about it, I mean, meat is subsidized. Leather's not so. These people are actually making a lot of money on the skins. It's not like this…Oh, maybe I'll throw it out. Oh, sure, maybe we'll make a couple of bucks by selling this. It's absolutely a gigantic industry. So I think that's a pretty poor excuse.

Stephen: Gotcha. Okay, so now I feel like with these new sourcing, I feel like a kid in the candy store like cause. When Adidas made that recycled ocean plastic shoe, I'm like, Wow, that's so cool. So what are some other some new exciting fabrics or ways to create leathers or things that are coming up on the pipeline soon?

Rae: And this is the best part. So when I first source my first bag in alt-leather from Italy, it was the best I could find meaning, like the most eco-friendly and like this factory's very transparent. And it's a grain based synthetic leather called a bio Poly oil. So there's no petroleum. They're zero carbon emissions, zero waterways. I think they just used, like the dirty water to cool the machines. But now there's more important, like my second collection was made with Pinatex, which is, um, pineapple husks. And through the media, we've all heard about the mushroom leather leather made from orange peels from apples

Or the week before. There was some big press release about leather being made from cactus so all of these bio materials are actually really interesting for the future. But my next collection actually will be made with a synthetic leather. Also from that factory in Italy. This version will be made with 100% recycled plastic. And that's sort of my mission to use recycled materials at this point. I mean, there's just plastic covering this earth, and I think it's important to find another use for it. So that's sort of my calf at this point, right?

Stephen: I mean, it's all over the Pacific Ocean and all around, so they're collecting this plastic and then resourcing it for product.

Rae: Yeah, and it's great, actually, to see Kanye West with the Yeezys, I think there will be made from some algae.

Stephen: Okay, that's to prepare for his 2024 presidential run.

Rae: I know, I know, but I'm just saying, like, I don't want to hoard all this just to myself. I want everyone to be doing. I want all the big brands to be using this and like not just one collection. I mean, soon enough, I really do think that things were happening quickly, and so we're just going to see more and more, and not only with friends using these materials, but more materials coming to the marketplace. So it's just gonna get, like, so fun and interesting. And no one, I mean, why would you even want to use leather at that point?

Stephen: Yeah, no doubt, right? Exactly. Because right, once you figure out the alternatives and that you know that there are so many options and that's what's so cool about technology, and we're seeing it with energy as well. How many options there are, I guess with, um, with sustainability, it's It's a big tent movement and I swear every week I changed my opinion on something on what's gonna move the needle for the movement and at large. So there are debates, even on terms as well, you know, Are you vegan or vegetarian?

And I have fluctuated between vegan and vegetarian. I'd say about 80% vegan at this point, but I would call myself vegetarian. But what do you think of the terminology of vegan versus someone saying plant based, for example?

Rae: I know vegan is has, like, a really harsh connotation, doesn't it? I don't often throw that word around just because I do think that it frightens people. But plant-based is super popular. It means the same thing. It just a little softer sounding and just more palatable to people. I think when you hear “vegan”, you just think of like, really intense activists. And look, I am in full support. But a lot of people don't understand or it's not for everyone. Or maybe it's too soon for everyone. So plant based is just a little softer way to put it.

Stephen: Yeah, I was doing a little research on this topic to my trusted source Instagram, and then read it too. It seems like people say that vegan is more lifestyle. Plant-based diet, I guess. With plant based It's been impressive. What's happened with Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger that they were able to mainstream plant-based burgers relatively quickly. So do you think that could work for you? Could you have an Impossible Bag? We're not just be evil marketing.

Rae: Well, you mean like the leather that's grown in Petri dishes, that sort of thing or just continue using a synthetic? But I personally think that the quality of the synthetics that I used does have a really leather like touch. So maybe I'm there. I mean again, everything's just all my options are getting better, So sure. I mean, I hope to have my own beyond meat. That’s simply excellent.

Stephen: I think it's just about the terms. I struggle with them, too, because a lot of it's just about recreating, just getting people into. I think people think of it how it was 20 years ago, and people think of sometimes of sustainability as a hippy dippy issue. But I've been very encouraged lately. Just seeing Greta Thunberg. I read a story about Jane Fonda saying she was so influenced by Greta Thunberg that she's been going to Friday's for future marches multiple times as well. So it's definitely is getting somewhere.

Rae: Totally.

Stephen: Yeah, I guess it's just that persuasion, because people have to realize in some ways that sometimes when people are not benefiting from the current systems that are there,

Rae: right, exactly.

Stephen: So I'd love to hear how with sustainability, it seems like Hozen has it really ingrained throughout the company, like not just, you know, it goes way beyond just the product sourcing, which you talked in such great detail on. So how does Hozen use sustainability throughout the company?

Rae: Well, as you have been mentioning, sustainability is like a really tricky term that could be interpreted a number of ways. And I realized that by introducing any new product that's just not sustainable, the most sustainable it would be to reuse, recycle, drift, that sort of thing. But I really do feel like in the materials amusing. We're making good use of that for supporting factories that are also on these missions to go green. And also people want newness. It's just just the capitalistic ways. So anyway, I do realize that I do create this footprint, especially because the recycled materials that I use are all made abroad again. The leathers from Italy and then the zipper's thread all recycled plastics come from Asia between India and Taiwan and Hong Kong. So there is that footprint of shipping everything to me in Los Angeles. So as you mentioned, I do purchase these carbon offsets. They're actually really affordable, so I think everyone should partake. What did you do? The research and you can kind of calculate your shipments in the weight and the distance in frequency with which you're making these shipments. It's really reasonable. And I think that's sort of the best I know I can do right now if I am, you know, continuing to purchase these materials from abroad and then again once we have the final product and it's ready to ship to either my wholesale stores or direct to customer. We also pay for carbon offsets for those shipments, the domestic as well.

Stephen: Okay, so you know, I was hearing about Etsy. Doing this as well, because they had an initiative in February with paying for all the carbon emissions that would result from shipping. Do you know how much it costs, like per package to the consumer?

Rae: Oh, wow. I have to go back to my notes, but I mean, it's like, well, under a dollar, right? So it's one of those things I know some sites, actually, you can elect to add it to your, you know, check out. So that's an option. But I just went ahead and paid because again it seemed like it was really reasonable, and I thought it was just something that I didn't want to miss out on if someone decided not to go for it.

Stephen: You definitely. And do you know the name of the company that offers that

Rae: there is the one that I use, which is the CO2 a paper offsets to make my website carbon neutral? Because, I mean, that's another thing we don't think about. There's like some big electricity, huh? That's running all of our sites, right? 24-7. So for the website offsets, I do CO2 neutral website and then checkout is carbon-free. So it's carbon to fund dot or GE for the shipping offsets.

Stephen: That's great, cause it's ueah, it just feels expensive. And that's why I think some people don't are an incline as much. But yeah, just seeing, hearing that it costs less than a dollar. I've even heard etsy cost less than 10 cents per package. They have more scale. It's a very affordable option. And I think also for the sustainable customer base just to see that on checkout. Have you got any reaction from people

Rae: you know? Not specifically just yet I don't think I've heard from many customers, but again, I'd do it for like it's a part of our mission, so I don't expect to get any praise for it. It's just done. You know, we're always kind of looking for more things to do or look more better ways to do things. And so if you have any other suggestions were open.

Stephen: It's a good idea. It's a good philosophy because I think when you're just marketing the heck out of things because you want to get the recognition, it's sort of the wrong mindset. But it is something that, given all the options that people have with purchasing product, when you're not just saying we're sustainable and you're backing it up with third parties that are doing carbon offsets, it puts more mettle to that claim. And I think that's what people are frustrated about to, because it's like you gotta have a really good bullshit detector with all the greenwashing, because hot and that's something that eases people where they see some real stuff, not just marketing speak that talks about it

Rae: Exactly.

Stephen: So let's ah, perhaps a lighter topic because you and I actually we met on Instagram. Interestingly enough, Yeah, it seems like a fun place, some in our sector. So do you meet a lot of people on Instagram? And I'm just curious, even from a business perspective.

Rae: I do. I meet a lot of people. A lot of influencers reach outl wholesale stores, all kinds of people, as you can imagine.

Stephen: So you'll have a store DM you and ask about more information on the product?

Rae: Yeah, exactly. Just, you know, for line sheets and lookbooks. And just to find out all of our wholesale, like terms of conditions, that sort of stuff

Stephen: because there is with all the hashtags. And I know there is definitely that built in community where I think it's like you were talking about where you were talking about with product sourcing, how you don't need to be the only person using pineapple husks. You don't need a monopoly on it. You want to share the wealth and share good ideas on sourcing. And it seems like that ethic is, you know, people are spreading around ecological tips. People are spreading around information about good brand. So it's really nice vibe on instagram.

Rae: Yeah, I mean, I think there's room for all of us. You know, we all have a different vision, someone else. Plenty of people make Pinatex bags in addition to me. But you know, we all have our own take on it. So I fully support anyone who's also trying, you know, to go down this path because it's hard

Since people, you know, I mean, I think a lot of people are interested, but still people are weary of the materials and equality and how the wear. I mean, I think that leather just has this. People just know what they're going to get and they know how long it will last and what to expect and how did care for it, that sort of thing.

Stephen: So for your consumer, how is it split, would you say, between a sustainability focused customer versus someone who just loves the look of the bag or someone who's not buying it? For that reason?

Rae: Right. Good question. Do you think there's like a high percent who are attracted just to the aesthetic and then I do think those same people when they find out that we are on this mission of being eco friendly and cruelty free. I think that's definitely a plus, but I would say most of the people who support the brand or really they know what they're buying into. But it is great that I can kind of attract all sorts of people. Yeah,

Stephen: Definitely. And I think you can relate to this when you're eating vegan. People sometimes have this impression that doesn't taste that good. And then you and I are thinking we're eating Impossible Burgers and having vegan chocolate and only ice cream having a grand old time, eh? So it's just like with fashion. There's not too much of a sacrifice on the performance, if any. It's just a different thing,

Rae: Totally back to your point about sustainability and this kind of trend. I mean, I noticed now, so many people are, you know, say they are wearing some sort of fast fashion piece. They're like, super ashamed to admit it. So there's almost like a pressure to try to be making like a green effort, and if you're not, then there's, like some shame behind that, so I don't know. I mean overtime and in you know, each person's own way you do what you can write?

Stephen: Yeah, I think it's a transition where right people maybe broke the seal on purchasing different types of products. And once they see it for themselves and have experience with that product and realize that it will last long and you know and they have additional reasons beyond just price, it can be very compelling,

Rae: Exactly.

Stephen: So let's see, Wanted to ask you about your distribution strategy. You know, just that. And I find it interesting. Just, you know, I think with brands like sometimes people think of e commerce is great in the sense that you get higher margins if you're selling directly on a website, you know, But the thing is that sometimes not as theirs. You're hitting part of the shopping beast, not everybody. So I was interested to look at Hozen and see that you work with a lot of online retailers already. And you're also in brick and mortar stores. How did you develop this wholesale strategy?

Rae: Right. Well, so we are still super new. I mean, we launched last year. We're very lucky to have some wholesale accounts and the direct sales, I mean again direct sales would be great because, yes, I make more of a margin. And if I was exclusively direct than I could even drop the price a bit. But it's really hard to compete on the web as you can imagine. A small brand. So it's hard for people to find you. I mean, I'm still growing my following and fan base. So for that reason, wholesale has been amazing. And coincidentally, a lot of the stores that I've partnered with have a sustainability focus. So I'm, like, curated amongst these other brands on a similar mission. And so so it just kind of makes sense. And I feel good about, um, people representing me and the brand. And so so far, wholesales been amazing.

Stephen: Great. Do you find that the wholesale relationships sometimes bring more people to the website and vice versa. But it works together, not in conflict.

Rae: Yeah, that's another thing, too. I mean, the wholesale concept is like an extra form of marketing, right? For more people that might not find me online will see me in a store when they're shopping for something else. So absolutely, it definitely helps. Do you know bring in more fans.

Stephen: Great, Great. So I Yeah, I agree, too. I had, um I've had experiences. I used to work at Lafayette 1 48 New York, and they had some huge department store accounts that they were just feeding each other. You know, people would purchase from the website or they would see something in Nordstrom and then come back to the website if it wasn't what they wanted. So it it led to a lot of good, reciprocal relationships when sometimes your initial instinct, people get a little protective on. But I think it's great to have your stuff in more stores so that more people were shopping very differently In these days. Every generation communicates different shops different. So it's I really love that strategy that you have

Rae: Right, and that's actually another perk of wholesale. I think it gives you some clothes. I guess I'll say, But, um, just again to be aligned with other brands, it might be better recognized than you know that people kind of trust your product that's otherwise unfamiliar to them.

Stephen: to get in the wholesale. I mean, you said people were contacting you on instagram. Is there a formal process that goes into wholesale where you put together? I mean, I've seen kits that are designed to convince buyers. I've even heard of a couple of websites that are designed for marketplace. But is there some, like what's the semiformal or official process of when you're trying to get into these types of stores?

Rae: I think the official is to do the trade shows twice a year in September in February. To date, I've only done this September trade shows, and at that time you show your spring summer collection. So because I have an accessories brand, I don't feel like you need to come up with entirely new collections twice a year. So I think for the beginning of the year I launch a line and then based on customer feedback and like honestly, maybe even my own whims, I'll just introduced new styles in new colors, kind of expand that collection over the course of a year. The trade shows is where all of the buyers and the stores and the press come to see you at market.

Stephen: I was reading up about your sports habits and I heard that you're a big Houston Rockets fan, and then you have you have tickets to see some games. Uh, unfortunately, I'm a Knicks fan, so we're 10 games into the season and already all hope is lost, but that's another story. At Least Spike Lee is my New York Knicks soulmates. Consolation in that. But so what? Sports, I think. And, you know, if your husband as he watches the Rockets, maybe this is a guy thing, too, but looking at statistics for games. So I was wondering how that's translated over to your Hozen life for sustainability life. Like what key performance indicators (KPIs) that you track?

Rae: Gotcha. Well, okay, yes, I will go back a step. And the reason I follow so closely is because of my husband and during the season, I don't think I'd see him if I didn't follow. But honestly, it's really gonna mean yes. Basketball is a ton of fun, and he's the big stats guy I follow because of him. Luckily, he's involved in Hozen more on the business side, so he is the one who tracks the stats like officially. I guess we follow on Google Instagram basically. They're all. They all have these metrics for me. Personally, I guess it's helpful to see I guess, how we're performing. I don't know that we have much insight into, like competitors performance, but it's always right to know where we can improve performance, right? So that's helpful, because at this stage, we do outsource some help someone marketing and PR etcetera.

Stephen: Yeah, definitely think numbers. Sometimes they're scary. And that's why I avoid them now. I know. But there's, you know, even with I like, what Shopify. And you know, even Google and Instagram. They have these simple. You don't download anything. You just look at your numbers and you see how much traffic came to the Web site or, you know, your conversions or how much engagement you're getting

Rae: Right. So there's this reading the stats. But then there's a whole task of analyzing, which is very complicated, a little too complicated for me. I mean, I guess I could take the quick approach and just see, maybe, like what I posted that did well versus what didn't but again, you never know. It was like the time of day or someone else reposted like it's so hard to keep up with, you know? Yeah, I guess it's like right. It's like the why.

Stephen: It’s important because, right, Who knows? If you know, if you posted and you got more comments on that, I think it's just Yeah, it's like the insight that you're trying to gain from it, where it's like, Oh, this happened So okay, what am I gonna do differently? Am I gonna post more content? You know, You know, for me, the debate is, should I post more pictures of my dog on Instagram or because she because she is one of the one of the more popular post But yeah, yeah, it's just tow. Yeah, it's like we get stuck on the numbers, but it's like it's trying to figure out what to do with it

Rae: Exactly. And to remember that everyone's going through it, You know what I mean? Like, we're all trying to figure out how retail works these days. And what's the best way to promote these products that we’re so passionate about, you know?

Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. So what are Hozen’s plans for 2020 since we're getting so close to the end of 2019.

Rae: I know. I can't believe it. So 2020 as I mentioned, I have a new collection launching in February. It'll be all new styles. And again with the material is a really nice synthetic leather made from 100% recycled plastic. So really, I think that my husband did. The calculations in these bags will be made with over 90% recycled materials, which to me, is super cool. Yeah,s

Stephen: So you really got to take a look at these bags. They're so…. very eye catching. I remember seeing you on Instagram or seeing Hozen. And just that circular design that you had really caught on.

Rae: Thank you.

Stephen: So for our audience. How can people find hose in in the future?

Rae: Okay, well, on Instagram, of course, we are Hozen Collection. That's probably the best. I mean, of course, we have our newsletter. So if you go to HozenCollection.com, you'll get a little pop up and you can sign up for a newsletter that will have special information and discounts, that sort of thing. So that's probably the best way to keep in touch.

Stephen: Excellent. Perfect. Thanks so much for coming on the show, right? Thanks, Stephen. Great.